Rider Comparo: 2015 Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Limited | 2015 Honda Gold Wing | 2015 Indian Roadmaster

Cresting June Lake Loop (California Route 158), with the snowcapped eastern Sierra Nevada in the background, are three of the biggest, most luxurious touring bikes available. Harley-Davidson’s Electra Glide Ultra Limited (left) has roots that go back to the original Electra Glide of 1965 and the introduction of the Batwing fairing in 1969. Honda’s Gold Wing GL1800 (center) celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. Though it shares a name with the original from 1947, the Indian Roadmaster (right) is a new model for 2015.
Cresting June Lake Loop (California Route 158), with the snowcapped eastern Sierra Nevada in the background, are three of the biggest, most luxurious touring bikes available. Harley-Davidson’s Electra Glide Ultra Limited (left) has roots that go back to the original Electra Glide of 1965 and the introduction of the Batwing fairing in 1969. Honda’s Gold Wing GL1800 (center) celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. Though it shares a name with the original from 1947, the Indian Roadmaster (right) is a new model for 2015. (Photography by Kevin Wing)

The onset of middle age is often a time for taking stock of how far one has come and how one measures up. Are you past your prime or hitting your stride? Have you just gained weight, or have you also gained the wisdom of experience? Honda’s Gold Wing turns 40 this year, and it’s certainly heavier than it used to be but is still on top of its game. Some luxury touring bikes are lighter or faster or have different features, but it is a fool’s errand to deny the impressive achievement that today’s GL1800 represents.

Rider was launched in 1974, the same year the Gold Wing made its public debut at the Cologne show, and we have documented the GL’s evolution since its inception. Our April 1976 issue included a 3,000-mile, multi-state tour test of the GL1000, outfitted with a Jacwal fairing, Krauser saddlebags and other touring accessories. Over the years, as the Gold Wing has grown from four cylinders to six, from 999cc to 1,832cc, from naked bike to fully appointed luxury tourer, we’ve been along for the ride, testing it over long distances, comparing it to competing machines and even riding successive generations back-to-back to chart its steady progress. Though it hails from Japan, the Gold Wing is an American icon, designed to suit American riders on American roads, and for much of its history it was built in Marysville, Ohio.

Admiring Yosemite Valley from the Tunnel View overlook, with El Capitan on the left, Half Dome in the distance and Bridalveil Falls on the right.
Admiring Yosemite Valley from the Tunnel View overlook, with El Capitan on the left, Half Dome in the distance and Bridalveil Falls on the right.

For this comparison test, the Gold Wing is joined by two American-made icons, the Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Limited, which underwent a major update for 2014, and the Indian Roadmaster, which is new for 2015. Why compare a modern, fully-faired, flat-six-powered luxo-tourer against two classically-styled V-twin touring cruisers? Because cruisers absolutely dominate the U.S. motorcycle market—Harley-Davidson beat Honda 12-to-1 in terms of touring bike sales last year. Americans love V-twin cruisers, and the Ultra Limited and Roadmaster are the ultimate expression of V-twin luxury touring. Is Honda’s flagship still the gold standard, or have the best from Harley-Davidson and Indian closed the gap?

These bikes were designed for the open road, and that’s where we evaluated them, logging 1,200 miles over several days on California’s highways and byways, bagging high-Sierra passes and Yosemite National Park along the way. Our route across deserts, through valleys and over mountains brought variable winds and temperatures ranging from the mid-80s down to freezing, providing ample opportunities to evaluate wind protection, comfort, power, handling and more. Although we ran short loops two-up on each bike to assess passenger comfort, most of our test riding was done solo, and at a pace well above typical for these bikes to reveal any handling weaknesses, particularly when the road was winding. You’ll find details about each one in the sidebars and spec charts; read on to see how they compare to each other.

Despite weighing 900-plus pounds each, these bikes feel lighter on the road than they do on the scale, and cornering clearance is rarely a concern.
Despite weighing 900-plus pounds each, these bikes feel lighter on the road than they do on the scale, and cornering clearance is rarely a concern.

When it comes to luxury touring, size matters. There has to be enough space and wind protection for the rider and passenger, enough load and luggage capacity to carry them and their gear, and enough power to move the whole show down the road. These are big bikes, each stretching more than 8.5 feet from nose to tail and weighing 900-plus pounds fully fueled. And they have much in common, from big, torquey engines and weather-beating windscreens and fairings to cushy two-up seats, capacious luggage and standard amenities such as cruise control, heated grips and high-tech audio systems.

The Gold Wing is renowned for touring comfort, with a broad windscreen, a wide, flat seat for the rider, generous seating with a wraparound backrest and large grab handles for the passenger, and separate rider/passenger seat heaters. It is a very good overall package, one that has been steadily refined over five model generations, but it isn’t perfect. The windscreen causes buffeting in the low position and its manual adjustment is cumbersome. With a low, pullback handlebar and the fairing/engine located in front of the rider’s shins and knees, there isn’t much room to move around or stretch out. For the long haul, the Honda’s seat provides the most consistent support, and the passenger enjoys the most spacious accommodations. But the large seat bolster behind the rider splays the passenger’s legs apart and air coming over the windscreen crashes down on the passenger, which can be noisy, turbulent and potentially cold.

Big triple-disc brakes with standard ABS (the Honda’s and Harley’s are linked) slow these machines with confidence and authority.
Big triple-disc brakes with standard ABS (the Honda’s and Harley’s are linked) slow these machines with confidence and authority.

Like the Honda, the Harley and Indian have plush king-and-queen saddles with wraparound passenger backrests housing audio speakers. On both cruisers the rider sits in a deeper pocket with feet up on floorboards, putting more weight on the tailbone, which can cause discomfort toward the end of a long day. On the other hand, floorboards allow the rider’s legs to be extended and feet to be moved around (the Harley’s heel shifter adds convenience but limits space, so we took it off), and, in conjunction with the fairing lowers, they provide more wind protection for the rider’s feet than the Honda’s footpegs.

Honda’s Gold Wing GL1800 celebrates its 40th anniversary this year, and all 2015 models feature special badging and emblems
Honda’s Gold Wing GL1800 celebrates its 40th anniversary this year, and all 2015 models feature special badging and emblems

Even though the Harley’s windscreen is not adjustable, the redesigned Batwing fairing with Slipstream vent manages airflow well, and adjustable deflectors below the fairing do a good job of blocking air or bringing it into the cockpit. The Harley has a compact cockpit, with a handlebar that is narrow and close to the rider. Passengers enjoy good comfort, the best wind protection in this test and plenty of space (the trunk can be moved fore/aft about an inch), but the Ultra’s V-twin shakes at idle and its rear suspension is the most jarring over bumps. Only the Indian has an electrically adjustable windscreen, and it parts the wind smoothly. Raising it to the highest position creates a quiet bubble where only the rumble of the engine is heard. The Indian has a spacious cockpit with a wide handlebar that’s positioned just right. Passengers get floorboards that are adjustable for height/angle, a heated pilot/pillion seat and less vibration at idle, but the upright backrest is firm and airflow can be noisy and turbulent when the screen is in the low position. Overall, it’s clear that comfort is king on these bikes, and if something isn’t to your liking there are accessories that can help.

When it comes to pampering the rider and passenger, bigger really is better. And these alphas of the asphalt do it in style.
When it comes to pampering the rider and passenger, bigger really is better. And these alphas of the asphalt do it in style.

All of these bikes have trunks that will hold a pair of full-face helmets and large saddlebags, and the Honda and Indian supplement them with small fairing pockets. At 150 liters, the Honda offers more luggage capacity than the Harley (133 liters) or Indian (142 liters). The Harley and Indian have wide-open trunks and top-loading saddlebags that are easier to pack and retrieve gear from than the Honda’s oddly shaped trunk and side-opening saddlebags, and they also come with standard luggage racks on their trunks (Honda offers one as an accessory). The Honda and Indian offer the convenience of remotely locking luggage, but the Roadmaster’s trunk lock broke. Other notable differences are the removable fairing lowers and trunk on the Indian, and the side-opening Tour-Pak on the Harley, which allows the passenger to stay seated. Also, the cruisers have the advantage in load capacity—460 pounds on the Harley and 454 pounds on the Indian vs. 413 pounds on the Honda.

The Gold Wing’s 1,832cc liquid-cooled flat-six engine churns out gobs of smooth, turbine-like power—a trademark feature since the GL’s early days. Maxing out at 106 lb-ft of torque and 101 horsepower at the rear wheel, a fully loaded Wing pulls strongly, with instant throttle response throughout the rev range. Hardly any vibration or engine heat reaches the rider, and the exhaust is nearly silent. In terms of torque, the Roadmaster’s 1,811cc air-cooled 49-degree V-twin slightly edges out the Wing with 107 lb-ft, but its 76 horsepower is much lower. Vibration is moderate and it’s absolutely smooth on the highway, but with the fairing lowers installed pronounced engine heat can bake the rider’s legs in warm weather and the intake/exhaust are too loud—we can’t imagine using communicators on this bike at speed. With less displacement at 1,690cc, the Ultra Limited’s 1,690cc air/liquid-cooled 45-degree V-twin produces 95 lb-ft of torque and 79 horsepower at the rear wheel. Engine heat was never an issue and exhaust volume and tone are just right, but there’s a lot of vibration at idle. Of the two V-twins, the Harley is more refined, with a more pleasing pulse and a sound that is more growl than jackhammer. Overdrive transmissions (5-speed on the Honda, 6-speed on the cruisers) shift smoothly, though all exhibit some clunkiness in lower gears. The Honda’s shaft drive and 32,000-mile valve inspection interval, as well as the Harley’s and Indian’s belt drives and self-adjusting valve lifters, keep maintenance to a minimum. All three have cruise control, but only the Honda has electric reverse—an invaluable tool for extracting a heavy bike from a compromising parking spot.

For bikes of this size, the Gold Wing is hard to beat in terms of handling. Its low center of gravity and beefy twin-spar aluminum frame help it roll effortlessly through corners, giving the rider absolute confidence. Suspension compliance is generally good on the Honda, but its front end is harsh over sharp bumps. None of these bikes offer damping adjustment, but we appreciate the convenience of the Honda’s electrically adjustable rear preload vs. the manual air adjustment on the cruisers. With their heavy, bar-mounted fairings, the Harley and Indian have higher-effort steering than the Honda. The Harley offers quicker turn-in than the Indian but it tends to wallow in corners when pushed, and its limited rear suspension travel is jolting over rough pavement. Even though the Indian’s wide handlebar provides good leverage, it steers more slowly than the Harley. On the other hand, it feels more planted in corners and its suspension delivers responsiveness and ride comfort that surpasses the Honda. All three bikes have strong triple-disc brakes with ABS (the Honda’s and Harley’s are linked), but the Honda requires less lever effort and has better feel than the others.

web-chart3-KWP_6328Beyond space, comfort and power, luxury touring is about the details, the visual and physical touch points between the rider and the machine. The Gold Wing has long been known for its profusion of buttons and dials—more than three dozen are spread throughout the cockpit. They look dated, but they’re large and easy to use with gloved hands while riding. We like the optional built-in navigation system but not the nanny that prevents us from operating it while riding. Project Rushmore updates to the Harley have made its various buttons and controls easier to use, and the comprehensive Boom! Box 6.5 GT infotainment system is impressive. The Indian, on the other hand, lacks cohesion, with big buttons for the keyless ignition and fog lights, tiny buttons for the heated grips and remote locks, and mushy buttons for the audio system and windscreen adjustment. And if you want a navigation system on the Indian, you must buy a separate, non-integrated GPS unit.

After evaluating four generations of the Gold Wing, from the GL1000 to the GL1500, Clement Salvadori concluded that it “has done nothing but get better in its role as a touring machine” (Rider, April 1990). Twenty-five years and another generation later, his claim still holds true—it is an even more highly refined, well-integrated luxury tourer. But competition is closing in on all sides. BMW’s K 1600 GTL is lighter and more powerful (Rider, May 2012), and the Harley-Davidson Ultra Limited and Indian Roadmaster are as good or better in terms of wind protection, rider/passenger comfort, load capacity and standard features. The Gold Wing is ripe for a reboot, and we’re eager to see what tricks Honda has up its sleeve.

Read detailed sidebars about each motorcycle by clicking the links below:

2015 Harley-Davidson Ultra Limited
Seating positions are upright and neutral on all three bikes, but arm and leg positions vary. Floorboards on the Harley allow the rider’s legs to be stretched out.

2015 Harley-Davidson Ultra Limited Specs
Base Price: $26,099
Price as Tested: $27,399 (custom color)
Warranty: 2 yrs., unltd. miles
Website: harley-davidson.com
Engine
Type: Air/liquid-cooled, transverse 45-degree V-twin
Displacement: 1,690cc (103.1ci)
Bore x Stroke: 98.4 x 111.1mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Valve Train: OHV, 2 valves per cyl.
Valve Insp. Interval: NA (self-adjusting)
Fuel Delivery: Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection
Lubrication System: Dry sump, 4.0-qt. cap.
Transmission: 6-speed, hydraulically actuated wet clutch
Final Drive: Belt
Electrical
Ignition: Electronic
Charging Output: 650 watts max.
Battery: 12V 28AH
Chassis
Frame: Tubular-steel double cradle w/ two-piece backbone, steel swingarm
Wheelbase: 64.0 in.
Rake/Trail: 26 degrees/6.7 in.
Seat Height: 29.1 in.
Suspension, Front: 49mm stanchions, no adj., 4.6-in. travel
Rear: Dual shocks, air-adj. preload, 3.0-in. travel
Brakes, Front: Dual discs w/ opposed 4-piston calipers, fully linked & ABS
Rear: Single disc w/ opposed 4-piston caliper, fully linked & ABS
Wheels, Front: Cast, 3.00 x 17 in.
Rear: Cast, 5.00 x 16 in.
Tires, Front: 130/80-B17
Rear: 180/65-B16
Wet Weight: 900 lbs.
Load Capacity: 460 lbs.
GVWR: 1,360 lbs.
Performance
Fuel Capacity: 6.0 gals., last 1.0 gal. warning light on
MPG: 91 PON min. (high/avg/low) 48.2/41.3/38.2
Estimated Range: 248 miles
Indicated RPM at 60 MPH: 2,250

Place your content for the first column here.
Place your content for the second column here.
2015 Honda Gold Wing
The Honda’s wide fairing and engine lock the rider’s legs in place. Its adjustable windscreen is shown in the lowest position.

2015 Honda Gold Wing Specs
Base Price: $23,999
Price as Tested: $28,129 (Audio Comfort Navi XM ABS package)
Warranty: 3 yrs., unltd. miles
Website: powersports.honda.com
Engine
Type: Liquid-cooled, longitudinal opposed flat-six
Displacement: 1,832cc
Bore x Stroke: 74.0 x 71.0mm
Compression Ratio: 9.8:1
Valve Train: SOHC, 2 valves per cyl.
Valve Insp. Interval: 32,000 miles
Fuel Delivery: PGM-FI w/ automatic choke
Lubrication System: Wet sump, 4.9-qt. cap.
Transmission: 5-speed & electric reverse, hydraulically actuated wet clutch
Final Drive: Shaft, 2.75:1
Electrical
Ignition: Computer-controlled digital
Charging Output: 1,200 watts max.
Battery: 12V 20AH
Chassis
Frame: Aluminum-alloy twin-spar perimeter w/ engine as stressed member, Pro-Arm single-sided cast aluminum swingarm
Wheelbase: 66.5 in.
Rake/Trail: 29.2 degrees/4.3 in.
Seat Height: 29.1 in.
Suspension, Front: 45mm stanchions w/ anti-dive, no adj., 5.5-in. travel
Rear: Pro-Link single shock, electric-adj. for spring preload, 4.1-in. travel
Brakes, Front: Dual discs w/ opposed 3-piston CBS calipers & ABS (as tested)
Rear: Single disc w/ opposed 3-piston CBS caliper & ABS (as tested)
Wheels, Front: Cast, 3.50 x 18 in.
Rear: Cast, 5.00 x 16 in.
Tires, Front: 130/70-HR18
Rear: 180/60-HR16
Wet Weight: 916 lbs. (as tested)
Load Capacity: 413 lbs. (as tested)
GVWR: 1,329 lbs.
Performance
Fuel Capacity: 6.6 gals., last 1.0 gal. warning light on
MPG: 86 PON min. (high/avg/low) 44.0/39.5/35.8
Estimated Range: 261 miles
Indicated RPM at 60 MPH: 2,550

2015 Indian Roadmaster
Floorboards on the Indian allow the rider’s legs to be stretched out. Its electrically adjustable windscreen is shown in the lowest position.

2015 Indian Roadmaster Specs
Base Price: $26,999
Price as Tested: $28,199 (two-tone paint)
Warranty: 2 yrs., unltd. miles
Website: indianmotorcycle.com
Engine
Type: Air-cooled, transverse 49-degree V-twin
Displacement: 1,811cc (111ci)
Bore x Stroke: 101.0 x 113.0mm
Compression Ratio: 9.5:1
Valve Train: OHV, 2 valves per cyl.
Valve Insp. Interval: NA (self-adjusting)
Fuel Delivery: Electronic fuel injection
Lubrication System: Semi-wet sump, 5.5-qt. cap.
Transmission: 6-speed, cable-actuated wet clutch
Final Drive: Belt
Electrical
Ignition: Electronic
Charging Output: 710 watts max.
Battery: 12V 18AH
Chassis
Frame: Modular, aluminum backbone w/ cast aluminum swingarm
Wheelbase: 65.7 in.
Rake/Trail: 25 degrees/5.9 in.
Seat Height: 26.5 in.
Suspension, Front: 46mm stanchions, no adj., 4.7-in. travel
Rear: Single shock, air-adj. preload, 4.5-in. travel
Brakes, Front: Dual discs w/ 4-piston opposed calipers & ABS
Rear: Single disc w/ 2-piston pin-slide caliper & ABS
Wheels, Front: Cast, 3.50 x 16 in.
Rear: Cast, 5.00 x 16 in.
Tires, Front: 130/90-B16
Rear: 180/60-R16
Wet Weight: 931 lbs.
Load Capacity: 454 lbs.
GVWR: 1,385 lbs.
Performance
Fuel Capacity: 5.5 gals., last 1.0 gal. warning light on
MPG: 91 PON min. (high/avg/low) 48.8/41.3/35.9
Estimated Range: 227 miles
Indicated RPM at 60 MPH: 2,250

13 COMMENTS

  1. Actually the Honda Goldwing out muscles the BMW K1600GTL below 4,000 RPM’s which is frankly where these big touring bikes will be ridden most of, if not all of the time. This combined with a more comfortable riding position and significantly larger luggage capacity makes the Honda the better choice to me.

    • It’s a “different strokes for different folks” situation with the Wing and the K1600. Some have a preference for effortless, smooth torque. Others crave the character of an inline-6. Neither is short of ample roll-on torque at any speed in any gear.

  2. Have owned a 2005 1800 goldwimg since 2007 and now a 2012 wing have done some long day rides 6 to 8 hours long for five to eight days. Enjoyed every day of it. Never felt fatigued or discomforted in any way. Did put on floorboards and highway boards for further comfort. I rented a 2015 Harley ultra classic last year. Didn’t like the extreme heat on my legs very uncomfortable. Very fatigued after 4 to 5 hours of riding. To much vibration especially at low speed and stopped. Did like the updated electonics. Harley did a great job with the Mount Rushmore edition. Honda could have a look at updating its electronics and transmission. Needs 6 speed. Blue tooth. Easier access and controls of the GPS. Be interesting to see the BMW and victory vision compared as well.

  3. Wondering why they didn’t take the Kawasaki voyager into account.
    It is far more cheaper to own than any of the above mentioned bikes, the engine specs are around the 1800cc mark (1700cc for voyager), the styling is old school, linked braking, ABS, audio/communication system, cruise control. I don’t see why it wouldn’t stand its own in this comparison.

    I’m a Kawasaki owner myself, and I believe the bike should have been included.

    • In previous tests in this magazine, the Voyager has been short on ground clearance in comparison with the current Wing, Ultra, and Roadmaster. And with 66 hp and 86 lb-ft, the Voyager also lags behind in power and torque (Wing: 101/106; Ultra: 79/95: Roadmaster: 76/107). It’s not a bad bike; it’s just not on the leading edge.

      • First of, thank you replying and clearing the basis of selecting the bikes for comparison.

        I just want to add a couple of things in my view:

        These bikes are meant for road and highways/motorways. I, for one, wouldn’t think ground clearance should be too much of an issue.

        And the power/torque seems to be abundant for the road at high speeds/ overtaking on highways. I agree its not as much as the other bikes though.

        However, as a suggestion, it would only be fair to include bikes of the same category and give pros and cons of it (not saying you haven’t reviewed it properly)

        Again, thank you for replying and always a pleasure reading your stuff.

        Novice from Pakistan.

        • Although cornering clearance is not an issue when spending most of the time on the interstate highway and long straight stretches of road, a lot of enjoyable touring riding can be done on twisting backroads. It is on these roads, with S-curves and hairpins, with the bike leaning over at speed through the turns, that cornering clearance becomes important.

  4. My first motorcycle was a Honda 50, I was 5 years old. I am now 47 – so I have had the opportunity to ride a number of different makes and styles of bikes over the years (and in a few different countries too). And regardless of what you ride, it is a good thing to be on two wheels.

    I currently have a cruiser and my wife and I are wanting to move into a tour bike in the next year or so. I haven’t been too brand loyal – I have owned or ridden 5 different brands. I have been most interested in a specific bike for a specific reason and I really appreciate a good dealer.

    This past winter my wife and I were travelling in Nevada and California and we rented a BMW K1600 GTL for a day and than a HD Ultra Limited for a day.

    We all have our personal preferences for different reasons; for me as a rider, the BMW was brilliant. The more I gave it the better it was. As a negative I found it to be top heavy when parking or low speed, but the weight melted away on the highway and it was so engaging to ride. However for my wife this was not her choice. She felt the wind buffeting her head and she had a sore neck and headache after about 100 miles – and it was more difficult to get on and off.

    The HD I found kinda lazy, (I know its hard to compare the 2 when it comes to performance as the HD is not intended to compete). However I really like the fit and finish on the HD and it was a very enjoyable relaxing day of riding – for both of us. This was the bike my wife picked (hands down). Easy to get on and off, and very comfortable.

    I think how I can sum this up – was after 100 miles on the BMW, my wife was looking to head back to where we started. After 100 miles on the HD, my wife said “no need to go back, we have the rest of the day”

    If I was riding solo, I would buy the BMW … but I’m not (thankfully). And so I think I will be buying the HD.

    Would love to try the Indian – but we don’t have a dealer anywhere close to where I live and even when I’m out on the road the dealer network is not yet established (too bad, but it will come – I’ve heard a lot of good things about this bike)

    I did look at the Goldwing, to me it kinda feels like it is too dated (although it has an excellent reputation), and it appears to have its own cult following.

    One last thought; I really enjoy the camaraderie that exists when out on the road between most of the riders and I hope that we can all value and appreciate that regardless of what we ride

  5. Well reasoned comments, all. Each is a great bike with exceptional comfort, durability, and capacity. They truly deliver on their promise — a quality touring experience. As a vertically challenged rider with narrower hips I find the Harley a better fit for me with the lowered/forward seat option. Although I appreciate the precision of the Honda and the suspension on the Indian, when touring for extended intervals those issues seem less critical over time. For me I feel as if I am sitting ‘on’ the Honda whereas I am more ‘in’ my Harley. Yesterday I completed a 3,200 mile road trip in four days. Any of these bikes would have been suitable but I really liked the flexible rider positioning my bike afforded. It all boils down to the fit and your personal preferences. It’s the journey that awakens the soul.

  6. Have a 2003 Goldwing with 100K miles. Added a heel toe shifter and floor boards for comfort.

    Except for oil, brake and tire changes almost no maintenance required. Never stopped running.

    Engine powerful, almost no shifting over twisties or hills. Would like a 6 speed transmission for better fuel economy.

  7. I have been riding Harley touring models recently and recognize all the pro and con comments mentioned. One machine that I owned and regret selling was my 1997 Valkyrie tourer. Outstanding power and comfort. Beautiful in black – did not like the two tone combinations. Peer pressure forced me onto my first Harley which were quite inferior until the 2009 tourer upgrades. But this year I added a leftover 2014 Valkyrie (check out the selling prices) to the fleet, installed the Secdem windscreen and the Corbin bags. All in for $15K. Lighter, nimble and a flyer. Just not very pretty. And lacks cruise control. But for the money, an incredible combination!

  8. If I knew then to what I know now I would have no purchased a honda goldwing granted it has everything but conform the seat is horrible, can’t stretch out to get comfortable tour pack on the back needs to be a just able slide at least 2 to 3 inches back and forth and the seat needs a complete redo

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